It was a war zone! People get hurt! People die! And it happened over 65 years ago! Wake up people!
What is this anyway? It is HR 44, the ‘Guam World War II Loyalty Recognition Act’. Loyalty? Recognition? Huh?
Let me ask you something, “Since when is it the government’s job to compensate residents of a war zone simply because they were loyal? War is war! War is hell! But we shouldn’t have to pay you simply because you survived. How about just a good ole, “Thank you for saving my butt!”
Now if you read that part of the bill which says, “The term ‘compensable Guam decedent’ means an individual determined under section 4(a)(1) to have been a resident of Guam who died or was killed as a result of the attack and occupation of Guam by Imperial Japanese military forces during World War II…” Who died or was killed…by the Imperial Japanese? It only makes sense to me that you should be going after the Japanese if you want some kind of compensation. The American taxpayer didn’t attack you! The Japanese did!
Here let me quote you something:
“The local Chamorro islanders were to face their own hell. The Japanese treated them as virtual slaves, occupied their homes, used them for forced labor and raped and killed them by the hundreds. The Japanese occupation began with brutality and grew progressively worse until, in the summer of 1944, the Chamorros of Guam were forced into a hasty concentration camp on the east side of the island. It is was pure horror: filth, disease, hunger and death.”
Does it say anything in there about Americans occupying your homes raping the women and killing them by the hundreds? Does it say, “The Americans were brutal?” Then why are you asking Americans to compensate you? And all this happened over sixty-plus years ago… Why are you bringing it up now?
So, how much are you asking the American taxpayers? It’s all here. Read it in section 3 of the bill. This is outrageous! This is like the fire department having to pay you for putting out the fire and saving you life.
SEC. 3. PAYMENTS FOR GUAM WORLD WAR II CLAIMS.
(a) Payments for Death, Personal Injury, Forced Labor, Forced March, and Internment- Subject to section 6(a), after receipt of certification pursuant to section 4(b)(8) and in accordance with the provisions of this Act, the Secretary of the Treasury shall make payments as follows:
(1) RESIDENTS INJURED- The Secretary shall pay compensable Guam victims who are not deceased before any payments are made to individuals described in paragraphs (2) and (3) as follows:
(A) If the victim has suffered an injury described in subsection (c)(2)(A), $15,000.
(B) If the victim is not described in subparagraph (A) but has suffered an injury described in subsection (c)(2)(B), $12,000.
(C) If the victim is not described in subparagraph (A) or (B) but has suffered an injury described in subsection (c)(2)(C), $10,000.
(2) SURVIVORS OF RESIDENTS WHO DIED IN WAR- In the case of a compensable Guam decedent, the Secretary shall pay $25,000 for distribution to eligible survivors of the decedent as specified in subsection (b). The Secretary shall make payments under this paragraph after payments are made under paragraph (1) and before payments are made under paragraph (3).
(3) SURVIVORS OF DECEASED INJURED RESIDENTS- In the case of a compensable Guam victim who is deceased, the Secretary shall pay $7,000 for distribution to eligible survivors of the victim as specified in subsection (b). The Secretary shall make payments under this paragraph after payments are made under paragraphs (1) and (2).
(b) Distribution of Survivor Payments- Payments under paragraph (2) or (3) of subsection (a) to eligible survivors of an individual who is a compensable Guam decedent or a compensable Guam victim who is deceased shall be made as follows:
(1) If there is living a spouse of the individual, but no child of the individual, all of the payment shall be made to such spouse.
(2) If there is living a spouse of the individual and one or more children of the individual, one-half of the payment shall be made to the spouse and the other half to the child (or to the children in equal shares).
(3) If there is no living spouse of the individual, but there are one or more children of the individual alive, all of the payment shall be made to such child (or to such children in equal shares).
(4) If there is no living spouse or child of the individual but there is a living parent (or parents) of the individual, all of the payment shall be made to the parents (or to the parents in equal shares).
(5) If there is no such living spouse, child, or parent, no payment shall be made.
(c) Definitions- For purposes of this Act:
(1) COMPENSABLE GUAM DECEDENT- The term ‘compensable Guam decedent’ means an individual determined under section 4(a)(1) to have been a resident of Guam who died or was killed as a result of the attack and occupation of Guam by Imperial Japanese military forces during World War II, or incident to the liberation of Guam by United States military forces, and whose death would have been compensable under the Guam Meritorious Claims Act of 1945 (Public Law 79-224) if a timely claim had been filed under the terms of such Act.
(2) COMPENSABLE GUAM VICTIM- The term ‘compensable Guam victim’ means an individual determined under section 4(a)(1) to have suffered, as a result of the attack and occupation of Guam by Imperial Japanese military forces during World War II, or incident to the liberation of Guam by United States military forces, any of the following:
(A) Rape or severe personal injury (such as loss of a limb, dismemberment, or paralysis).
(B) Forced labor or a personal injury not under subparagraph (A) (such as disfigurement, scarring, or burns).
(C) Forced march, internment, or hiding to evade internment.
Now who do we have to thank for this absurdity? Madeleine Bordallo, U.S. Delegate, Guam At Large sponsored HR 44 along with eighty-eight co-sponsors. Of that number eighty-three were Democrats (figures) and five were republicans.
There is a snowball’s chance in hell that we can stop this nonsense by contacting your U.S. Senator to say, “No.” on the ‘Guam World War II Loyalty Recognition Act’. - Norman E. Hooben
Probably because the US stepped in and prevented Guam from seeking redress from the Japanese, as it would have slowed down the VJ-Day talks, and told Guam that they would compensate them instead.
ReplyDeleteRef:"Probably because the US stepped in and prevented Guam from seeking redress from the Japanese, as it would have slowed down the VJ-Day talks, and told Guam that they would compensate them instead."
ReplyDeleteProbably the people of Guam should just say thanks...
Your 'probably' is absurd...this redress your talking about is happening now; not sixty-plus years ago. The Americans were fighting the Japanese not the Guamanians. Guam had no effect on the V-J talks...none, zero, zilch!
The last major battles were on Okinawa...guam was already secure by that point...except for one of the hold-out Japanese who went into hiding and came out in the 1960's (66, 67 or 68? I was there).
Hey, I survived Vietnam...why don't you pay me for my survival! Get the point?
The US government, without consulting the Chamorro people, decided to relieve the Japanese government of its obligation to pay reparations to the Chamorro people by taking the liability itself. They did this as part of their efforts to rebuild Japan. That's what happened here, nothing more.
ReplyDeleteStorm'n Norm, you've accused the Chamorro people of greed and lack of patriotism. Yet did you know that the Chamorros lost a greater number of their young men in Vietnam than any other American ethic group or any State in the Union? You were there, don't you appreciate this? They're doing it again with Iraq and Afghanistan too. Pretty generous and patriotic I'd say for a group of people who were colonized without consent and don't even have the basic right to vote in Congress or for the US President.
If the Japaneses destroyed your home and killed and raped your children, and then the US Government said they don't have to pay you any compensation because the US will pay for it, and then the US conveniently neglected to do so, what would you do?
Most American's would stand up for themselves. I think you would too - even if the US ignored you for 60 years, you'd keep fighting. After you died your children would carry on the fight out of respect for you. It's the principle of the thing.
But I guess if you consider the Chamorros to be non-Americans because they can have their lands taken by the both the Japanese and the US military, and can't vote for for the Commander in Chief, even thought they still pay taxes and exercise their right to fight and die for America, and I guess if you consider only Americans have the right to stand up for themselves when they're wronged, then I guess you've got a point.
Ref:"Storm'n Norm, you've accused the Chamorro people of greed and lack of patriotism."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely false!
You obviously did not get the point of my retort which is quoted at the top of the page:
" This is like the fire department having to pay you for putting out the fire and saving you life."
Further, I've read enough of Bamaba Reparations Report that convinces me that this whole reparations thing has gotten way out of hand. I firmly believe that all previous payments to the residents of Guam were totally unjustified. Why should I (meaning any American) have to pay you a dime because you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your complaint is with Japan irregardless of any treaty signed by the U.S. Government.
To continue to hang on to this issue would be like me going after the British Government for what they did to my ancestors in Ireland.
Ref:"Yet did you know that the Chamorros lost a greater number of their young men in Vietnam than any other American ethic group or any State in the Union? "
The above statement is totally irrevalent and out of bounds of the discussion.
Ref:"If the Japaneses destroyed your home and killed and raped your children, and then the US Government said they don't have to pay you any compensation because the US will pay for it, and then the US conveniently neglected to do so, what would you do?"
I'd go after Japan! or forget it and get on with my life!
Ref:"But I guess if you consider the Chamorros to be non-Americans because they can have their lands taken by the both the Japanese and the US military, and can't vote for for the Commander in Chief, even thought they still pay taxes and exercise their right to fight and die for America, and I guess if you consider only Americans have the right to stand up for themselves when they're wronged, then I guess you've got a point."
Again, totally irrevalent to the subject at hand. I never once insinuated any of what you are suggesting...but you do express your warped sense of imagination.
So you agree that the Japanese should pay the reparations. Good.
ReplyDeleteAnd since the US Government told the Japanese that they don't have to pay the reparations it follows that the US Government also recognized that the Japanese were obligated to pay the reparations.
And since the US Government told the Japanese that they would pay the reparations for them, the US Government took on this obligation themselves. It was their decision and it is a legally binding agreement between the two nations. Nobody gets to "go after Japan" now.
I don't know about you, Norman, but when the government owes me money, I expect them to pay it. This happens almost every year when I over pay my taxes.
If the government didn't pay me my tax refund this year, and the next, and the next, etc. until 60 plus years had past, I would never say, oh well I guess they don't have to pay. Oh well, I'm just being greedy and ungrateful - I'm a bad person.
The only reason that the US has not paid the Chamorros is that people misunderstand the issue. They think that the Chamorros are asking the US to pay for damage that the Japanese did and find that outrageous like you did. But it is a statement taken out of context. What the Chamorros are really asking for is for the US to complete a deal they made with Japan that involves the two nations and the Chamorro civilians of Guam.
Why the US forgave this Japanese obligation the the Chamorros and took it upon themselves is a good question, and one that you as a US taxpayer have a right to ask. Most people familiar with the post-war period understand why teh US did this and are okay with it.
The US government created this problem by not following through - not the Chamorros. There is no way that an individual can "go after Japan" and overcome a legally binding agreement between two of the most powerful governments on Earth. The Japanese government says the US agreed to pay this for them. Legislators in the US Government are ready to pay. That is what HR44 is about.
I could care less about any government agreements concerning this issue. They were all wrong to begin with...
ReplyDeleteYou need to get on with your life!
Drop the matter! End of Story!
This whole thing is ridiculous!
To Pedru:
ReplyDeletePerson X murders person Y. Person Y is your great grandfather whom you never met.
Person X is my great grandfather whom I never met. So why do you keep hounding me? I never had anything to do with it!
Get real! Get a life!
Too bad Norm. I thought maybe you'd stop the grandstanding and listen. Nobody is bothering you. However, you are attacking something that you don't understand and that is actually not your concern - the fulfillment of an obligation by the US government with some of its citizens. Well it might have been your concern if you were an American who believed in standing up against injustice.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, person Y is my father who is still living. While other American children were out playing, he was working as forced labor on the Japanese airfield on Guam. There are not enough letters in the alphabet to assign to his civilian cousins, my aunts and uncles, who were murdered or brutalized by the Japanese.
For you this is a fun issue - a chance to attack people under the guise of an outraged patriot. But it is not fun for us. The wounds on the people and land of Guam are deep and long lasting. I don't expect you to understand. Bullys never change their ways.
Your rationale is not rational!
ReplyDeleteDon't accuse me of grandstanding and if anyone is not listening it is you. You don't seem to get the point! Nobody is bothering me? Is this a joke? You are bothering every American taxpayer for something you do not have title or claim! The US Government has no right to task it's citizens for crimes committed by others irregardless of any treaties. It is morally unacceptable!
I am not attacking something I don't understand...simply pointing out the facts that you have a problem understanding.
I guess my X Y example went right over your head! You missed the point entirely! Go back and read it again without prejudice and don't infer anything else, keep to the example and the example only!
This is not a fun issue with me it is pure unadulterated insanity to have a mindset that thinks otherwise.
The Japanese invaded, the Japanese were cruel to the people they captured.
The Americans overtook the Japanese and saved the previously tortured population.
(Forget your stupid treaties. Even if the United States government never made any treaties, you would never have gotten a dime or a Yen from the Japanese government. It just doesn't happen! That's life!)
The tortured population and their decendants instead of saying "Thank you" decide they want some kind of monetary reimbursement for time lost. Good grief! What a mindset!!!
I'm not attacking you, just your attacks on the citizens of the United States. Don't assume anything more or anything less, it's that simple!
The Americans didn't come back to liberate the Chamorros. They came back to reoccupy the island for their planned invasion in Japan.
ReplyDeleteSo...? What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
ReplyDeleteStormin, this is a buyoff of all parties concerned. This is getting rid of to problems with one payout to the people of Guam.
ReplyDeleteThe US will not be held accountable for the severe contamination to Japan(Okinawa and possibly others) or Guam, that was done by our military.
The payoff from Japan to Guam for war reperations paid by the US and the US won't have to answer for it's severe problem with our military contaminating the environment around them in Okinawa and other places.
Then this payment may or may not be spiced up and will be viewed as payment and silence about the severe contamination to Guam, You make waves no money.
This is how things are done in the real world.
Any which way you try and explain your position it is still a rip-off from the American taxpayer...stop making excuses for stupidity!
ReplyDeleteActually the US is getting off cheaply on this one. 3/4 of a billion dollars has already been put into the contamination on the island and only about 4% of the contamination has been addressed. These stats are a couple of years old so we've poured more into getting rid of the contamination. It will take billions to remediate Guam.
ReplyDeleteYou have to understand exactly what the island of Guam was contaminated with and how it has affected the health of the people. This island at one time had the highest rate of neurodegenerative disease in the world. Some stats have the rate as high as 1 in 4. Whatever it is the island has been the recipient of a lot of the most toxic substanes ever devised by man and it was ending up in the sole source drinking water aquifer. And if the US admits to the contamination to the people of Guam then how can the US not admit to making many veterans sick, many of which were WWII combat vets. Over 18,000 confirmed cases of these disease has been confirmed in US vets who did service on this island between about 1944 and the middle 50's.
This problem of reperations isn't so cut and dry.
Ungrateful people will search for contaminated data to satisfy their warped sense of values...get a life Van!
ReplyDelete